037 - VR Car Configurator with David Tchoulakian, Virtual Spice, and Sebastian Matthes, Lufthansa

Show notes

This week on ResearchVR we discuss in depth one of the most awaited B2C application types - car configurator. Our guests, David Tchulakian and Sebastian Matthes, both did their diplomas in VR car configurator for one of the main automobile industry companies, and they agreed to share their experience and research with us.

Topics

  • digital transformation
  • why car configurators
  • business vs game application
  • impact of customization
  • Hicks law
  • what to customize
  • design references
  • the science of car configurator
  • limiting user by design
  • security and training
  • principles of UX in VR
  • choosing optimal hardware
  • technology availability
  • technology acceptance
  • optimal interactions
  • optimal experience length
  • input methods challenges

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Thanks to David and Sebastian for sharing his expertise with us and our listeners.

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Show transcript

00:00:00: It's recording now we are are online to play before we actually go over cuz I have is old.

00:00:06: We will introduce you a very exciting news that is mr. izdebski all by the way you can actually meet us in person very soon,

00:00:16: that's between 20 of a 2400 of March and where we are at Hibbett or to be more precise we are at we are at 7.

00:00:27: What is and that's actually a very special year 40 bit and for which reality because wild civet is one of the biggest Innovation conferences or expose actually no longer conference it's already an Xbox,

00:00:41: air in Europe and worldwide this year one of the holes is going to be devoted to virtual reality,

00:00:49: at home,

00:00:52: well not the whole one that's going to be around 2 to 3000 square meters but it still devoted just for virtual reality you wear.

00:01:02: Developers community business partners industrial Partners can meet together.

00:01:08: And discuss different solutions of at reality how far virtual reality is how can we help each other and I heard there's also an upload party,

00:01:17: yeah that's what be Thursday evening or Thursday evening if you have hot friends from ticket if you visited.

00:01:24: Or you are actually the exit or you can visit the Outfield part and guest speakers can also visit and by the way speaking of speakers.

00:01:33: Oh my gosh they're also really really really good there are over 20 developer in the writer workshops and talks I cannot even count to so many here and they're interesting,

00:01:45: I'm going to give a talk I think it will be a talk from the Tweenies if you heard the radio on one of four episodes that but yours will be more people that you already familiar with or,

00:01:55: directions would like to figure out that exist there will be also a panel discussion between big companies on Thursday.

00:02:06: I would work so and then our meeting virtual spice Workshop is going to be on Monday and we will chill.

00:02:14: Reality fans and,

00:02:16: how lovely research we are podcast true meaning we're too will be running around in recording exciting podcast for you so if you want to be a guest to let us know or find us,

00:02:27: find the ass might be tricky so just try to contact as we have Twitter just just and I don't just keep spending on Twitter Underwood finally answer okay well we would say we switch to the episode today which is a preparation in a certain sense.

00:02:41: For industrial Solutions in which reality AKA car configurator okay then turn in your and a moment.

00:02:51: Music.

00:02:56: And welcome the next episode of research VR review be on the wrong virtual reality,

00:03:02: play we are joined by the usual Cohoes me Petr legkov and Kristoff izdebski hello hi Chris. We are also having two wonderful guest tchulakian LOL with a softer engineering virtual spice n Sebastian matthes,

00:03:16: who is a it consultant at Lufthansa in this resolution and the topic will be surprisingly virtual reality car configurator,

00:03:25: and what is this topic as action not as boring or not as strange as it sounds and not as far away from science but I guess figure out in the next 40 to 50 minutes.

00:03:34: So first of all have our guests introduced himself so that tchulakian and what's your background.

00:03:41: I have studied MIT science and with a focus on game development and I made some yeah I made my first contact with the second one of their the Oculus Rift.

00:03:55: And then made a student Pro Project X yeah.

00:04:00: It was really interesting leveler to us right with the we actually started the founder of his life and I am so like the pre card work,

00:04:10: okay well if it ended up being more like and take them out not really a software and them.

00:04:18: After that I got to write my best with Caesars on the our topic is well I'll know we are car configurator topic,

00:04:30: no right now I'm working at the virtual spice as a software engineer on the artifacts as well,

00:04:37: and what do you do if you spice I'm a software engineer with focus on use experiences I'm so I'm practically the guy who,

00:04:45: is responsible for you to have a pleasant experience OVR the important role is now coming to the best and what's your background,

00:04:54: so my background is my study to a media technology and Communications which is like yeah.

00:05:02: Feel better so beautifully of media marketing a bit of communication so let's say it's a field that is not exactly the are about that lends itself.

00:05:14: Lot to this topic because yet we are stopping the touches all these,

00:05:18: yeah buddy Suffield so I'm actually got into the yard and get to a 15 by an internship and the automotive sector where I worked on so you see our configuration system and also,

00:05:31: with my master thesis on this topic,

00:05:34: melodee Simon it consultant at the Lufthansa Energy Solutions my special area of expertise there is of course again virtual reality and my job is to develop your solutions for,

00:05:48: y'all customers in Industry Automotive Vision Logistics and yes actually you are taking allergies,

00:05:58: increase of the important windows in this industry so important to help them Advanced Digital Transformations yet that's what I do it in the context of Industry 4.0.

00:06:10: The World by concert no but only in Germany that's true maybe before we confuse people you just said digital transformation and Industry 4.0 so the words are radius Chris just describe currently in Germany because industry 4.0 just grabbing something at everyone else,

00:06:25: Dollywood proceeded to ready your mother Factory but what is digital transformation I hit my dog.

00:06:32: Yes oh so did you the transmission sexually yet translating with a clear of advancing your business processes.

00:06:41: Into the into the digital age so a lot of a lot of stuff that happens in the industrial industrial companies still is still very manual and their year they're not digital,

00:06:51: and of course since those a process it's winter and assistance which are historical and many years old,

00:06:58: Yankee time very very active and very very involved the process to get everything researchvr.

00:07:08: Which is which is not that easy because he can't do it within the day because he have so many so many systems and so many people and so many people and you need to align it so it fits well together and,

00:07:19: complete the transfer to see so coming back to the car configurator some maybe most of our audience have seen one of those,

00:07:28: car like a lot of publicly available on Friday you can just somebody when they and then go on our website of one of them Car Country, the car manufacturers around the world and,

00:07:37: that is probably one configurator button on every major car manufacturer a site that there is to become very important to have customizations customer lost with you know what just their product.

00:07:49: And I'm like you know with a very simple mine so I'll just put some Sweetie later and.

00:07:55: Slider done right and just basically put the same and we are so you seem to have done some science on it and why was it worse right at master key was about it would work if you work on it image.

00:08:08: Technically just a dream.

00:08:11: Will MSM eat with my besties and so it was a bit different than the mass of a science but I'm in and general the thing is that.

00:08:22: It was not a game we made in VR but it was.

00:08:27: The business application and they are our right now ask him to my.

00:08:33: Humble knowledge not any real VR business applications out there so what we did.

00:08:41: Was the orator design software where you don't have any kind of.

00:08:49: Relation point or relations related software where you can you know look at how other people design their business application VR software and the,

00:09:00: and that they're just are no best practices for for Designing business applications in VR,

00:09:06: what are actually the differences that you are referring to so you just.

00:09:11: Underline that the you need to build a business application different or even totally different than the game application well the main difference is the focus point,

00:09:21: because I gained applications focus on the user having fun using the application,

00:09:27: so I'm the point where the use of tries out sore or the use a place the gaming application he probably has already bought the application so,

00:09:37: manufacturer of this application has already made his or her money with it or send it for business applications it's different.

00:09:44: Because I'm the application itself is there or something you something.

00:09:50: So the application is made or you not well enough to enjoy make you enjoy your business applications in general.

00:10:05: 2 hour.

00:10:06: Yeah when you're talking like talking to gracious and cover the greatest those are usually the same system usually facing system so what is it.

00:10:17: The primary difference to me is of course the audience so when you have.

00:10:24: The audience for like a first person shooter game is probably not exactly the same,

00:10:30: same organs as you would have when you're trying to sound like a new car or the Indian we are actually talking right now about business-to-customer application.

00:10:40: Yes my business to business.

00:10:43: What are the challenges and and I think you're science Sebastian most rather go scientific name to her right right so so my Mother seasons actually wasn't wasn't empirical study,

00:10:55: Patricio what is the benefit of such having a,

00:11:01: having the operator and what is the benefit of what is the benefit for the customer and then.

00:11:10: Basically you would have to ask yourself why so what actually you I actually do we need configurator and what is missing from long brvr configurator sand how can we make.

00:11:21: How can we make the other with stuff that is missing and with his mother so I think you have to start.

00:11:31: Asking yourself.

00:11:33: Yeah right why do we need to call configurator so what the hell why do we need car configurator Sandra no it's not really not really limited to car configurator,

00:11:42: and soul topic of a mass customization and when you look at look at many projects that you can watch customize you have a lot of,

00:11:52: a lot of choice on a lot of choices to make.

00:11:55: So I went when you actually just have like a breakfast cereal Corn Flakes and stuff and you can come to those too.

00:12:02: What the impact of doing so is much more and much smaller and what's more than can be given cards however you really risky and costly decision so welcome to Eurasian system.

00:12:14: Is there to help the customer make a good choice and then actually have a satisfactory experience product so basically we have to look at what is,

00:12:23: how can the customer we how can we enter the customer to make a better choice and of course you also.

00:12:30: Yeah cause used to opportunity to to upsell my sweats that is there a marketing goats or Moses goes and yeah yeah those schools are.

00:12:41: Both equally important because if the customer yeah makes a poor choice.

00:12:46: Put themselves limits to buy the car or they might get a bit was at its got off and just quit and go to the go to the next manufacturer.

00:12:56: That's how it is if you heard over the Hick's law.

00:12:59: Hick's law is coming from actually usability and design hope it and it's everywhere you the more choices you have the longer the decision time.

00:13:10: And and marketing the result would be that the more choices you have and the longer decision the longer it takes to make a decision the less likely it is that you are going to buy it not play into the car configurator you actually have a zillion of choices,

00:13:25: white Adidas adilette the right and no not only not only does it decrease the likelihood of a customer to actually go to the next step and actually you.

00:13:35: Next up would be to and when we're talking about cause would be actually to contact to go to a deal on actually yeah I gotta get a test drive and and stuff until that is.

00:13:48: There's already a lot of friction between that and between putting on the website and sitting around and feel like taking the phone or going outside actually to Adidas Orion and I just as well the friction and you can use lose the castle of it takes too long but also a customer would actually.

00:14:03: If it takes longer if it takes longer for them to customize and optimize their decision then the benefit would be,

00:14:11: and they want us to date and that benefit losing out on and Petr customization because the effort to go through the process is too high and the costs are too high for them like a opportunity cost we have to do that.

00:14:24: Is there like an ultimate level like if you have too little customization customers will just say okay I cannot get what I want.

00:14:34: And we already established that there is an Africa of customization customization that you need of course so so.

00:14:44: Mass customization 62,

00:14:46: have a productive day. 3 the month of the customer and you just if you just have one product without any choices then of course especially since the customers I used it a used to having a sore,

00:14:59: of course you can the just take the choices the way it makes,

00:15:02: I think the important important thing is to give the customer a space to space to like experiment and play around.

00:15:10: Play around with there a possible Choice the space can be provided using a virtual reality.

00:15:18: And basically have like a Sandbox for a customer to play around until they are episode of satisfaction result so they can actually decide.

00:15:28: How much they want to customize the product what are the parameters and let customers 1/2 estimize and the car.

00:15:37: Well M4 for normal car configurator you can just take a look at.

00:15:43: Some random example but the Inn in general you have like a exterior colors interior colors are the radios headlights back lights,

00:15:55: I'm into your ass eaten what was it called again.

00:16:01: If if it's leather seats or or normal and the trim them yet.

00:16:07: And of course are very well maybe not important for everyone but for for most customers with a lot of money rims are important features are utilities,

00:16:21: so you mean like these how far can I shoot I be able to customize my engine door how far should I be able to customize.

00:16:29: Which utilities do I want to have like no more options with engines are,

00:16:38: limited with cars like you have I don't know maybe you or or or five different engines with different gasoline types for every car,

00:16:50: who sings the engine is like the biggest decisions they ever do it's like really about customers,

00:16:56: customization for my personal needs right I mean like for example if you have kids you kind of what they fit inside,

00:17:03: exactly and also the child says it's my favorite color does a person at a time mean if you were traveling and she wants to work,

00:17:12: kind of would like to have your vehicle to be also part of us still feeling yeah,

00:17:18: take another example if you are someone for example of musician and you have a roundabout way that with heavy equipment you need to always be aware of,

00:17:29: how much space you have in your car virtual reality could be one very decisive thing to make people.

00:17:38: Just gets.

00:17:40: Brass with how big their interior those cases of your this particular case I think it was obvious and some regards how the whole B2B and b2c business can,

00:17:53: gain from your we can discuss in the end but what are the UI changes my question is why is it obvious.

00:17:59: What are the features I want to see in virtual reality that I cannot see on the desktop will obviously you have you ever wanted to buy a car before.

00:18:09: I all the time want to buy a car but then also broke it really doesn't make sense to have one and I just finished early so my wallet cannot handle this but imagine if you wanted to buy a car,

00:18:20: what do you buy your car online from a website after just configurator the car.

00:18:26: That's no just sells the cars on the website you cannot buy it anywhere else but they have like 3 Cars to choose from so I definitely would like to take a test drive.

00:18:36: That's from like the visual components what's the advantage of seeing a car like a 3D model of a car on a desktop that I can go over the mount and rotate and see from the different perspective what is virtual bringing the table.

00:18:50: So basically you have to you have to imagine that.

00:18:57: When you come to you and your car online and then go to then go to the dealer and want to try to call you and you like to try to call you and not getting your car because it's.

00:19:07: New Toyota Market you're getting I have like a perhaps if you're lucky one or two models of like.

00:19:15: Similar configuration of what you chose there and you get to try that.

00:19:19: And with a with virtual reality you can basically try to get as yet to get the customer as close as possible to the.

00:19:28: Personal car and am self configure that could be the last day.

00:19:34: So it would give them to kind of benefits first of the first benefits as the diagnosis diagnosed.

00:19:41: Thankless to City of of information to give them as much as possible information that would help them diagnose their choices one of them like is having.

00:19:49: This is the fastest a few spaces left so we have a 2d picture you just have period like 10 different views or 20 or whatever.

00:19:59: And yet those are from one little perspective.

00:20:02: And OMG conduit sit in the car with you up y'all you can obviously do that like move your head around get a feeling of spacious.

00:20:10: Car is ok the feeling he'll take a particular material to put materials that you may not have experienced before your car is being good like.

00:20:20: Picking up like picking picking another or picking up Anaconda based on how it reflects you- and stuff and I think that anyone who cares about how there.

00:20:33: Purchase looks like and I guess also you Chris usually choose not the pink.

00:20:38: Uncover but the one that fits maybe your phone maybe your invite I have a secret,

00:20:45: I checked his hoping he would buy the pink cover it was only $2 it is a very expensive thing and you kind of want to be,

00:20:53: to be sure that you want to buy it and also I guess with everything else that you can customize.

00:20:58: China is people care anymore obvious but the question is how to do it right I mean you would like to configurator car or any other object in the are to me something that's true so lot of people.

00:21:13: And travel I mean yeah you could just cause what precise music customer games but more importantly is how to build it.

00:21:20: Right you mean you wanted in the are you want to change your environment somehow,

00:21:27: I imagine have a mountain I can click around we all seem beautiful website you how to do it in the yard that's a big question,

00:21:33: that's a really interesting topic because that's one of the points though I told you earlier about meat we have a new referral form.

00:21:43: So what you need to think about is and then we got to design if you need to.

00:21:50: To make your design reflect exactly what the application is is Bill for so do you want to give your user.

00:21:59: Really that much freedom of you for example because our room scale VR you could just stand up or you could not only sit in the car but you could actually you know put your head through,

00:22:11: and just look inside the car we had that situation that with our experiment if we did at virtual spice.

00:22:20: Long time ago before you joined us we had a car configurator 2 this is an experiment of a visualizer and VR.

00:22:28: And it was that was a first DK2 and then with oculus rift there's anyone so you had some sort of room scale,

00:22:35: and so people we're going for benchmarking the software and looking through the hood and when they do that they would actually going through the roof and that sort of thing.

00:22:45: So as a car manufacturer do you want to do that or do you want you I do use it to do that.

00:22:52: That's that's one of the big questions you have to answer and them as well as well.

00:22:59: The obvious attraction points for configuring car are for example.

00:23:06: Add lights if you want to change the headlights OK the door if you maybe want to change the exterior color or maybe the,

00:23:17: what do I change about the headlight different headlights for four car still like all those I change the light reflector the mall.

00:23:27: As well a bit I mean never what are the standard lights again for for a car they use in sunlight so I mean xenon lights look different than.

00:23:40: Other headlights for car so you would see that in the mall and maybe if you could turn on switch on the lights.

00:23:48: You would see the difference in how the lights are shining on the street for example.

00:23:54: And you're a bachelor and master fuses that you had to write awesome lightning solution or the unity,

00:24:01: thing was enough no no we didn't didn't try to custom lighting solution so it so the focus if it was actually that was not on keeping achieving the most.

00:24:12: High Fidelity most high fidelity most high-quality it was more like having the concept of a complete outer the complete,

00:24:20: configurator look like and not it's just what I wanted to say there's not just like you tell Tara to your benefit for the customer to see how exactly does that stuff look like how exactly does potassium.

00:24:34: Yeah too deep Reflections where that is just that is just one aspect more important aspect is also this.

00:24:41: Very hedonistic they mention to buying a car no cause no just not no just a collection of pieces on four wheels it's actually it was what is being sold as like a Mobility concept,

00:24:53: some kind of lifestyle and so with your reality can help us to them.

00:24:59: Provide a product experience of virtual productive beans before the productive even made which means I'm if I can get the user close to the car.

00:25:08: Baby sign and sales.

00:25:10: Imitation box they have redesigned himself that I helped design that particular, just think that it can be theirs they can go sit in there they can adjust it to their liking Tourette's.

00:25:25: Virtual Ford experience that get emotionally attached to that car is also some kind of shopping experience is different than just going through like a list of 200 options and yes you want the,

00:25:39: what the cut you want to design the experience in the way that allow the customer to discover their own car so it sounds like you guys have a.

00:25:47: Let's go let's scientific framework behind the.

00:25:51: Car configurator that you tried to do and you tell us more about this science the science of car configurator.

00:25:59: Yes of course I am in the end you want to Custer and Yandy want a customer to.

00:26:07: Acceptable use the system and you want the customer to try to having Monday off if you can read this so that is basically if you are going from the end and say it with you with all this you want one,

00:26:18: for the customer to have a better configuration experience into to San Marcos.

00:26:24: And yeah I already mentioned you having like a hedonistic and then you tell it and I mention a fuse.

00:26:35: And yeah you want to you want to make sure that it is headbutt with the benefit in.

00:26:41: Providing providing W diagnostic information important information to make a decision from providing a sent box to created and also to create,

00:26:51: yeah to create a young and it comes up where we just enjoy the land has an aesthetic Dimension and,

00:26:57: your place to do your place to the motives and I mention and emotions of the user what is the two other two streams I need to know which are equally important are almost equally important for the customer wanted poster.

00:27:13: The windy need to you have with what reality you have the option to give the.

00:27:18: Use a feel of a telepresence being present with a car being present in an environment that place to my mouth is like like a Mountain Road or city what what wherever wherever the chicken car fits.

00:27:30: And yet to have them in control of control of the car in control of and what they do with it holiday is on it.

00:27:40: Yeah and having yes if I mention off and let's call it it's it let's call it,

00:27:48: vividness productive ologies basically those get that can be experienced and the experience virtually without having go to go to dinner and to watch right out or having him go to the dealer.

00:28:03: And basically being able to combine virtual and through and physical car experience is also an option we can provide basically.

00:28:13: I'm likely to have to go feeling of a physical car and at the same time providing providing.

00:28:22: I'm at the look of the.

00:28:24: Pacific specific customized car design themselves so yeah.

00:28:36: Add a user well one thing is to once the used to be in control and the other thing is to well as a car manufacturer you don't want to use it.

00:28:47: Well be able to do anything you want with a car.

00:28:50: You don't have one left maybe in some cases you want so they use it to try out how safe the car is by just pressing the car into a wall and see how the car react you know what to the crash,

00:29:02: was going to bring first me car or the world actually do that.

00:29:08: And what better way to to test your safety features off the car and then just precious virtual eat because it doesn't do anyone any harm.

00:29:17: I mean you wouldn't want to do that with your newly I mean self-taught car.

00:29:24: It was actually an application sort of going in that direction or at least using the similar concept of course I forgot the name by now because I tested it and it beginnings of gear VR it was an app for QR and the point of it was.

00:29:38: To convince you not to write messages on your phone while you're driving in a so.

00:29:45: They were like three or four situations where you almost had an accident and an Indian yet she hit that woman that was crossing the street with a baby and then you were like totally like car and all that stuff.

00:29:58: How how did how does the car get tossed around by pressing in to try to,

00:30:05: go to the side you hip hop so you don't hit the human,

00:30:13: tilted arc Arc or a driver and so anyways I would like to have a question about it would you,

00:30:24: would you think so having that experience experience that explains and I car crash,

00:30:31: would that make you more likely to buy car the dogs that help you go the.

00:30:40: Rite Aid bite SMS is on the phone while you're driving,

00:30:44: if if you had that option and like a car configurator that you could actually try something like that I think for a while and you could do it for automatic braking.

00:30:54: I mean yes also some other means of course you have the driving assistance systems.

00:31:02: You could actually test out quite well and be all right now you could still the car like you could test out the lane assist.

00:31:11: If this was actually maybe even rebuilding the car.

00:31:16: Inside and just putting you into your heads up there and just letting you test resistance to the status of when I said that you want,

00:31:23: you want to provide a sent box for you to try things I would so basically of course you want them in the end it was one scenario vert.

00:31:32: The car the customer can I can safely test the security features of a car but you don't want to have them experience them having a bad outcome so basically you want you want to make yeah you want to.

00:31:46: Used at Percy Priest in,

00:31:48: mine and only this car so you want to show them that actually you will have a good outcome this insecurity so we'll save you and going maybe that direction also lot of people just don't read manuals and I mean you need to understand hose assistance systems work I mean,

00:32:02: how much they can actually benefit to your security and maybe having them to do an obligatory obligatory but some kind of,

00:32:10: we are training before they can all connect u8,

00:32:13: and of Tesla driving and stuff all the possible thing is whether or not you want to that's kind of system into a car configurator this room.

00:32:24: The car configurator.

00:32:27: Excellent starting point from our next upcoming discussion regards what can you do actually in general and business perspective as you before we go farther I have one more question Tiffany we just discussed there.

00:32:42: Science behind the.

00:32:45: User experience design to save behind behind a business case of his application and behind the utility of the application what is the science behind the design.

00:32:54: Office application you mean in regards of freedom of the user or like the overall user interface and attraction in the world.

00:33:04: I mean.

00:33:05: What you can do is of course if you want to configure something no more if you if you want to change any object in your in your virtual environment you want to kind of well you have to get like 3,

00:33:20: big,

00:33:21: principles you have to implement for the user to be able to do anything in the eyes like that's that's not only for Africa configurator for for other stuff as well you have like um.

00:33:32: The Locomotion component why you want to do you want the user to somehow move in the end of virtual environment you,

00:33:40: you don't want to only see you a car from the front but you also want to see it from the back maybe you know if I'd want to go inside so you need to have some kind of locomotion system.

00:33:49: And the second one is you have to have some kind of a system.

00:33:54: Interaction where you need you to make some some changes to with the software all the software,

00:34:02: works like for example change that well if we talked about stuff in general that's like that this system settings change the options of the system,

00:34:10: the resolution the lighting options at cetera,

00:34:15: so far, for example of car configurator that would be I have finished configure my car and now I want to save my car somehow with my configuration so that I can later show it to some friends or family or,

00:34:28: maybe bring that's a safe configuration to a dealer and maybe gets more information to Michael about my configuration.

00:34:36: And then the third component is a selection and many many polation and this one is actually.

00:34:46: This one can actually be used as a basis for the other two components,

00:34:50: because I just am in Appalachian and The Locomotion can also be realized with tractor and many blessing for example if you have,

00:34:58: I'm in for the DVR you often use the gates of checker for some kind of waypoints in her for her for some kind of object in the.

00:35:08: We have way you need to stare at them and then you just teleport there something like that that's Locomotion realized using.

00:35:16: Selection and menu play Shin so for a car configurator you can.

00:35:26: It it really depends on what's what you want you are you're used to do and what you want him to see a pending on what you wanted to see you might change to the commotion so to petition.

00:35:40: First step one I want to build my car so it's a the colors to life.

00:35:48: All the stuff that you just got people and then I want to try it out,

00:35:52: the first episode of course you can take your car in the second one is to actually sit in there and then drive and test out that the defense system system to the car so or the first phone,

00:36:05: you have one yet because to overcome because a car is not only.

00:36:13: About its visuals.

00:36:15: You have of course Petr the colors of the car the headlights there the bike nights the seating options that exceeds the sports sports driving wheel.

00:36:27: And those are all things you can see and you don't need.

00:36:33: For example you don't need a menu in order to to change those you can actually just.

00:36:41: Maybe you with your virtual hands onto the steering wheel and then click ones and then you get the option for the steering wheel or you can just the steering wheel right out of the window and then.

00:36:52: Yeah another one use voice commands to drive that they will be interesting as well for autonomous driving.

00:37:00: But some you also have Parts in the car and visualize.

00:37:07: I mean how do you visualize software systems in the car even go one step before so.

00:37:15: And some new cars you have a completely new user interface.

00:37:20: Is it called user interface with that software interface off like,

00:37:25: internal computer where you write on something and then take a ride and see what I was actually having in my mind was a rotating wheel so that you actually hit oh yeah.

00:37:37: You really had One Direction Liam so I go right or left and then you were treating those things yet.

00:37:46: It how do you try this sort of thing out and virtual reality it really depends on what what device am I using.

00:37:52: I mean if you were using for example some kind of gastric love where you have like full full finger detection and then a single tracking you could actually make the.

00:38:06: The components interactable and acts like with component in it and a very natural kind of way.

00:38:14: On the other hand how would you realize like abstract and directions with a car with that.

00:38:20: Do you mean like changing a component of car I would you do that with with with thing I with it with hand tracking.

00:38:30: So the real question is how do I choose a device that I need.

00:38:34: Because I assume that there is a device with Endless Possibilities like it let's imagine I have a glove it has all the 27 degrees of freedom that the hand is fracking.

00:38:46: And then I could technically Implement end to make it better it has a force feedback was ultimately ultimately to to have like the ultimate.

00:38:55: Virtual car experience see once every year every single every single.

00:39:01: You like every single second sorry.

00:39:07: Everybody everything what you want to address you want to address every single every single sense of the user so if you if you could if it would be possible to.

00:39:17: Assimilate all the systems in the car simulator the bottoms of the wheels,

00:39:21: and obviously wanted to go for the day but there's also like a business time and do the whole thing so if you want,

00:39:27: if you want to roll out my VR configuration system on the internet I have to use that what is present at the user use as home so that,

00:39:37: in the best-case that could be like an HTC Wi-Fi and the worst case it might be.

00:39:43: A computer screen in the mall with malice or perhaps even like the top of my ass or something so in the end you have to really really like your pic your presence there and.

00:39:55: The let assume I have a situation where I build a car configurator in my shop so I have a full freedom.

00:40:04: It's going to Frankie all the devices that I need I will have.

00:40:09: How do I choose a device that I need weather from from the point of view of car manufacturer you don't pick the hardware you don't.

00:40:19: You just ride your application as and specific as possible so that that many different devices can access the application.

00:40:28: If you would like for example built configurator for 4.

00:40:35: Especially use case and you would need to pick you up before that you would need some kind of indicator.

00:40:45: Weather in all the hardware is suits your needs.

00:40:49: So if you want um for example if you wants that use you two to the tryouts and the car systems inside the car and of course you would want to have some kind.

00:41:02: What something to eat motion so you can yes or or he's acting the steering wheel things like that.

00:41:13: And if you want some too to make the music consider the car sales in a more indirect approach to to,

00:41:22: yep the whole thing is a tutu interaction is better and in my opinion.

00:41:29: I'm so you would need yes I'm some kind of tool and your hand like 45 with the device controller you have the laser pointer and can just point them different cars at car parts or you can just stuff yeah.

00:41:42: Do do a new Palapa menu on the controller and then sister okay configurator.

00:41:51: The real interesting point is that right now we have so many different hardwood VR Hardware's that you cannot read the.

00:42:01: Yeah I'm single I with the one hardware for you need and.

00:42:10: Try to make her think that we are at least at this in my opinion we really need something or some kind of indicator where you can.

00:42:20: I'm like on on one and see which which Hardware suits you or sooner application.

00:42:28: Directory actually I would I would actually go the other way around and see what is what is a realistic approach to getting this into getting this this all down the road so in the end,

00:42:39: in the end if I want to have a configurator.

00:42:42: runs on the internet and and send SMS home you will have to have to check what devices are available and then yeah you will actually start to rethink their decision because not many devices are,

00:42:55: so what's up there like the customers for new cars I'm not usually you.

00:43:02: Like 20 or 20 year old people if it still like yeah you actually have like 40 to 50 years and recommend.

00:43:14: Those devices are not usually these people do not usually have all the devices at home already so it's it's really really a trend that.

00:43:23: It's slowly starting to pay me all the U-Haul.

00:43:29: Relational I call the customer so in the end if you want to go if you want to go on we have to address to the lowest common denominator which would be like.

00:43:39: Car lot in the car but that is something you can get down to everyone if you want to go if you want to have a stint at the dealership you can basically if you have a good business case you can use more PC Hardware you can basically I think.

00:43:54: Wife wife said I was always liked of every good like very good middle middle ground between you having a for men's price and also very important aspect with BM.

00:44:07: With the most intimidating you have with having too much Hardware to the user has to put a glove on if I have a market-based wrecking perhaps even some some kind of exoskeleton you have like the perfect experience some some.

00:44:20: And you can have in many different devices and.

00:44:23: Ideally in an Ideal World I don't want to internet intimidate to call somebody having too much stuff for them to put on today it is very important that you go into the dealership and do you want to try out the VR experience to take around five minutes just,

00:44:37: M22 put ya to put on all the things you need to put on in order to to get that experience,

00:44:44: 1 straight out a very confusing in this particular contact experience I was on TechCrunch last year.

00:44:51: And I had a chance to test Toyota used ammo with it reality where you actually had a chair that was standing on the.

00:44:59: Text I mention of Freedom platform so you could actually control how the chair moves and so you were putting.

00:45:06: I want to save iPhone but at this point I don't fully remember because you also had a steering wheel so I didn't really matter which had said you had.

00:45:15: Anywhere actually sitting in a chair so and also experience everything is there that and all that stuff.

00:45:23: But then it turned out that you the only decision that you make the whole game is if you go right or left.

00:45:30: And you don't even turn your wheel pulley or control the car but it's a binary decision Either you turn left or right.

00:45:39: Yeah and so prove out the explicit.

00:45:43: Felt really awesome because the chain was moving at a car was jumping in there was something and it's chasing you and you picked up some guy that was running away from the band.

00:45:55: But then you had no agency whatsoever like you had no control at all about what happens in the game then to now the real question is.

00:46:05: Is it something interesting or.

00:46:07: A successful approach to the customers where you actually build a scenario and it's naturally controllable but you have a high level of emergency make sure that the customer doesn't.

00:46:20: Application I mean if you would have liked for stealing a the hearing of the application that you just described and all the customer will just not reach the end,

00:46:29: anyone him to go through the whole experience right I mean that's a problem if you have too much freedom on the other hand it's also a problem if I mean,

00:46:37: have you ever tried a different Driving Experience VR driving experiences.

00:46:45: A lot of those Driving Experience especially if they're not that good make people sick and the last thing you want as a car manufacturer is getting people saying about driving your car yeah that's what's up.

00:46:58: My nephew plays at yes we are driving up with Cobra cars car sales on Steam VR racing game from PS3 Ari diamonds car and 10.

00:47:12: So if you looking looking at the level of control level of interaction you when you want to and I will tell you that you have to have so you have to really trust,

00:47:23: really a town between use case and so first Toyota XB and she just talked about was not.

00:47:30: You're not and I like in the country creation like in buying face already well you have to decide on your eye care your actual product would look like,

00:47:39: you heard it it was just like an engagement with a product for chocolate like an experience I'd like to be our experience we get to explain the best and,

00:47:48: FedEx in which way they intend to intended you to be reality experience the Toyota right right so so of course that level interaction.

00:47:59: As you describe first alright to you and then in the end you said you couldn't because being with more but when you're looking in looking at the Falcons guess you obviously need to provide,

00:48:09: bit of more and more of,

00:48:11: One Direction to actually allow the user to the effect of the car to play around with a car but you also need to take into account what kind of customers and use as you have so if you provide too much choice of two different controllers and.

00:48:26: Like a lot of ways to interact many menus and stuff we can do stuff then you probably lose many of the less technically technically,

00:48:35: fix a leaky yeah right you're going to you going to lose many of them you want to make it,

00:48:41: do you want to make you or experiences are the options of interaction provide you a bunch of them before the sister wanted them,

00:48:48: you want them to be intuitive for the user so they can yeah there's this thing called I think you all know where that's with the flow experience,

00:48:58: basically the goal of the goal of having a.

00:49:02: Rapunzel having a customer learn about the product and why you that the challenges always you always are.

00:49:12: Level with the air with with the skills so if I usually do not expect.

00:49:19: Every customer to have like high APR and the computer interaction skills so basically you have like an opera that you haven't like an upper line to Kendra Lee,

00:49:28: and we do the same stuff you do it in like FPS or games and stuff so you have to have limited level of really intuitive.

00:49:37: And we the important interaction modes that you can.

00:49:43: You can really focus efficiency or doing every last small thing with the car is just too much for the customer also you don't want to don't you expect them to be.

00:49:54: In there for 2 or 3 hours so the level of the level of interaction needs to be very your area just to watch you.

00:50:00: Thank you our customers are cable with another roll if you build it they will 4x4.

00:50:09: The shower nozzle to your customers it should not be longer than 6 minutes.

00:50:15: I've learned that from one of the biggest excavator is on The Last Ship it or Hanover message it was wrong but reality.

00:50:24: And from there researchvr pointed out that it should not be too long well it makes sense because you want to show the experience to as many people as possible so is everyone from the many people can your show with your day,

00:50:38: it's from the perspective of how long can the user I keep his attention and keep his interest in the particular application jewelry.

00:50:46: Demonstration face it would be quite interesting to know if that's.

00:50:51: Yeah if if if they the attention span of the users were longer like 10 years ago it's not about the.

00:51:01: The contacts you know you're in the context of seeing a lot of different solutions around and you just want to get an idea.

00:51:09: Therefore it should not be too long the question here is.

00:51:15: How does it apply to the car configurator is like if you access the website home how long.

00:51:21: Could you spend with the configurator well as long as you want to because it's quite heavy decision you are making.

00:51:30: Imagine if you want to buy a new car and you car cost like $10,000 Euros or dollars depending on where you live and it's not something you spend every day so you need to.

00:51:43: Yeah you able to the two to take your time making that decision so so from from like a young and the utilitarian aspect if you want to spend.

00:51:54: I think you want to spend as little as possible time there when we get it done as long as it gets is it good fishing result.

00:52:01: From the so yeah of course it was short as possible but as long as you need basically that the area so up,

00:52:09: right but if you looking at it if you're providing like a positive enjoyable experience then perhaps when you go shopping and go out shopping for clothes or perhaps perhaps and your exam prep sat on the,

00:52:21: the technical stuff computer stuff. And perhaps you don't just spend the time you really just need it.

00:52:31: Going shopping also means spending any time having fun shopping so if you traded enjoyable experience again.

00:52:38: You get people into into a flow where the extra lose track of time so if you can if you can't get that then okay you can do more than a few minutes okay if you don't you can't leave now we can come back to my question where and what,

00:52:51: they're still needs to be researched and what has to be in a being thing I called into work can be implemented for business or it'll.

00:52:59: Doing business b2c.

00:53:02: What are the challenges and we came today already across the point where you guys at desserts basic and reference,

00:53:10: yeah and what you Sebastian describe as well when you to create a flow when you to create this and that with your awesome if you can do it how to do it,

00:53:18: is there still a lot of research it has to be done babe background basic research how to create effects is there something more and what are the benefits in general like going away from Scar the great Rick what can you match.

00:53:32: Inghams with VR or the first what is the background researchvr.

00:53:37: Needs to be done in order that we can build the best and just seeing other application.

00:53:43: So I think I think the most basic research there's a lot of research that has already been done.

00:53:50: Particularly in in the 90s when there was the first wave of the aura and yeah when no one I trust.

00:53:57: The first yes. It started looking for sources and like research for my thesis I thought yet.

00:54:04: And of a new topic and then I found out it wasn't so there's a lot of research out there so I guess the most basic research is done,

00:54:13: and what you do have to go with like specific United and you need to go and like I have empirical studies for a specific use cases so I think it is I don't think there's a lot of Need for,

00:54:25: with a like.

00:54:27: Like with Round Rock stuff because I think we can really know yeah we have really have structure and like we do know how many times for 3 have telepresence we have no we can have we can do of the experience by the Earth,

00:54:41: your butt needs to be I think the most nose work is in getting.

00:54:46: Most work to do with basically I'm making the are usable making the our experience is usable for different kinds of people so and usability usability and,

00:54:59: yeah I mean,

00:55:01: with the user interaction that needs to be there needs to be more research this weekend we don't lose many users.

00:55:10: When injecting I think the biggest hurdle in the with of interaction right now we are,

00:55:17: it already is the hardware because there is no standardized hardware for VR,

00:55:22: I mean everyone tries a different different interactive Concepts like you like loves the with with finger checking the control those the motion controllers for the device or for the the rest.

00:55:35: And the app tracker is like,

00:55:39: for for him picking the the promotion then there's that the full body suits the motion suits for a full-body tracking,

00:55:47: and there's different solutions for for tickle feet back for,

00:55:52: for 4000 force-feedback force feedback it's just so many so many different devices that you don't really know where to start and this value what to develop for,

00:56:05: I mean right now we have the wrist and devised as to like you there the most prominent of competitors out there.

00:56:13: So most likely everyone who is a 440 all right now is they were looking for of the rift or divide maybe for the gear VR but in my opinion mobile VR doesn't.

00:56:24: Take the cup right now or doctors make the cup right now because it doesn't have positional tracking yet not the popularized one yes.

00:56:34: In order to.

00:56:36: Or 4 VR 3D VR when a positional tracking I think there's a there's no way around that otherwise you will see people getting sick around everywhere.

00:56:47: And I'm pretty much so yeah the devices are or not the output device like it like it,

00:56:56: the visuals are not be the problem I don't see that because I'm virtual it will only be getting better in the next few years,

00:57:03: but Sunday doing the challenge and making VR accessible lies in the input system if you can.

00:57:11: Design Hardware which makes it and which makes to itch.

00:57:18: Infant matthes likelihood that the real interactions and the Magical interactions you can only do in VR like without making things move you don't even touch.

00:57:27: She can make a device that makes both these interaction methods.

00:57:35: Good and feel natural the winner isn't it too early.

00:57:41: Or standardizing the hardware I think so cause we're still in the testing phase I mean.

00:57:47: On one hand you need like experimental Hardware because you need to try out every option there is I mean we even have a EG Hardware.

00:58:00: I mean reading brainwaves how how fucked up is that.

00:58:04: Yeah we can actually do that.

00:58:13: I mean right now that the the Mayo is reading Steeler muscular activity and,

00:58:20: maybe they wanted they will spend 14 billion the 1.4 billion the day God rested.

00:58:30: Okay, get the data the only thing is that they cannot process the data.

00:58:35: Because they have too much they are if they just come protesters and major problems as it was.

00:58:45: First Eli that I actually bought and I have it me too that's why was the most useless devices ever bought even Technologies I was very interesting I'm single the processing powers.

00:58:55: The bottleneck It's a combination of power and it's the algorithm.

00:59:01: I need you need to make sense out of the date of your gets well and for that you need something and it seems that the price that's determines the sensors as they can use so the electrodes,

00:59:13: Arizona you know suggesting that the sensors are not as good so you have more noise compared to the signal,

00:59:19: then again you put it on an arm you you don't know how the user will put it on you have Harrison between,

00:59:24: the initially I guess you would have to pay for something I mean factors and when you measure those things for example for Prestige applications right to control your own artificial limbs,

00:59:38: you can use a muscle activity activity that involves weather.

00:59:47: Yeah different sensors and also different for Factor so you are suggesting that if you change the hardware it the thing of reading muscle activity could actually become.

00:59:58: Real for sure no definitely so so when you're talking about all this a fancy hardware and having that has different that's an important point so,

01:00:09: why are we actually sitting here today I thought it was already and,

01:00:14: we are so like if y'all of revolution in 99 and it failed and then our days it's back so why is it back because it's accessible because it,

01:00:23: partially highly integrated and because it's gotten cheaper and it works and so does having.

01:00:31: Having a device that is highly integrated and has a price point that yes supports many different business cases makes it accessible to,

01:00:41: Philadelphia business and business areas in particular and in marketing and and say it's and they're like in the years before,

01:00:49: like many many the oscillations like having a cave or stuff one was limited very expensive and Spence operations in like it design design stuff and Engineering stuff.

01:01:02: Up but only if you very like if you had like very very Corporation then you could do the stuff.

01:01:09: But I most people couldn't and nowadays so what needs to be done is if you guys need to be more highly integrated like and thinking face.

01:01:18: Like one device is highly integrated it's like the Microsoft hololens.

01:01:22: So that is like mixed reality device that has money that has room checking good and has his position a chicken good and has like voice recognition that and lots of stuff than that is useful.

01:01:35: Okay it's it and it is not really like to display technology the field of view is not really there but that is the direction that is interesting for like,

01:01:44: for business customers because it's highly integrated I can,

01:01:48: I can go on all the single device to someone I can play expanded single device to someone that is at its Max and make it accessible to the.

01:02:00: To be honest for the type of customers that Microsoft and meta are addressing I find hello I find meta by far better at responsive.

01:02:10: So long you don't want to go outside with with Helen doesn't really work anyway or,

01:02:16: you don't want to go to a shop floor that is most likely to complicate handoff,

01:02:23: there is really no difference in this case it is because I want Sebastian just and,

01:02:28: described as with all your roll out to Hardware the software and you roll out of Waco system and it's true that the Woodlands is one device that I need anything else and I need an additional PC even socially big problem,

01:02:39: do you have sex to have like the ecosystem are all distributed I guess you can go for the remote control when it and fix something so there's a whole Microsoft ecosystem maybe not perfect but around it,

01:02:50: but their business ecosystem for b2c Solutions ecosystem is not that important because you need your cast on you need to know.

01:03:00: So yeah yeah but what you want what you want to focus on this year your custom business logic you don't want to like you don't you don't need to custom Solutions voice recognition.

01:03:10: Put it is something you want have and every device I want to like.

01:03:15: It is something that is being addressed by by Amazon by Google buy Microsoft with out yes there are organizational constraints not every day that I can be sent out to the cloud but yet,

01:03:25: the patio the principle of of having,

01:03:27: done yet and I support whatever David says when it's done the right stuff I don't think,

01:03:35: I don't think we can gain sweet about and standardizing the.

01:03:40: PVR device that has everything and can do everything because that would be really expensive and we need to we need to Taylor devices to use cases just to decide I don't want the VR Hardware,

01:03:55: at 2,

01:03:56: compress down into one the hardware and when one single single hard with system and then for everyone to use that that that not my point there,

01:04:06: mother poems with the morning,

01:04:08: let me show you have you have we are talking about cars you have different car manufacturers as well it wouldn't be boring if everyone would be driving the same car yes is and what's going to happen to Tesla one day.

01:04:21: But yeah anyways I'm sorry you don't want to have Universal 100.

01:04:30: Yes I'm because a different sofa Solutions of course,

01:04:35: need two different approaches and different input approaches as well as different maybe not only into the approaches but also approach S4 for some systems,

01:04:46: Mar or Mr makes more sense than we are especially if you are trying to display virtual date and.

01:04:55: A real contact.

01:04:58: Then of course AR and Mr makes makes more sense than we are but then on the other hand if you want to do something that some.

01:05:06: Example in and work in a closed environment or.

01:05:11: Yeah do stuff you cannot do in Real Life 4 or 2 the poor to self to to someplace that doesn't even exist then of course yards is your choice.

01:05:21: And with that touch,

01:05:23: is General touch I think we need to round up the other listeners need to go back to work or to sleep or to do sign ever they do after they listened to our podcast what does a direction after the podcast,

01:05:37: do the right house I'm not anecdote,

01:05:40: what do you do after the podcast you don't want to know we have to cut some with you have to post processor the right show no and we could go drinking with the cast,

01:05:49: wait what was with imagine he wasn't mine I hope that's in general.

01:05:58: Even though it's a very specific topic it was quite informative for everyone was listening if you're not happy with anything give us if you back but I'm pretty sure you are.

01:06:08: Without further Ado I would think of the guest.

01:06:11: Thank you for the weather in person yeah that's for sure and maybe also noticed that we have improved out equality to everyone who was complaining.

01:06:24: We dated and now is on better not complaining providing Astro idea I mean.

01:06:33: If you feel anything else you want to ask about the common subscribe you're ever science and share it with your friends.

01:06:41: Music.

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